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Old 07-10-10, 07:09 PM   #101
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Default Re: Soulpatch, I found the perfect starter home....

Don't tell me all those State Workers are not providing services .... tell me it isn't so... , plus Counties.. plus Cities.. ya gotta be kidding...
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Old 07-11-10, 07:59 PM   #102
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Default Re: Soulpatch, I found the perfect starter home....

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulpatch
Being in a profession that survives by sucking on the public teat I am quite aware of the tax rolls.
No apologies here.... ya' gotta pay to have us out there scraping 'em up and putting out.
Apartment buildings and mobile home parks don't get re-assessed.....they are just companies and their holdings are just assets....not property. ...

That ain't a fat cat in that picture anyway......I think I could still pick it up!
Well, being in a profession that many say sucks the blood of clients, I could argue with you, to the extent, at least, that many who own apts. and the like are individuals, not companies. Still, I think we both come out on the same side: property owners who rent it out should not get the advantage of Prop. 13.

It's true, you could pick up even the bigger of the 2 cats -- if you could catch her. (She's a fraidy cat.)
Old 07-11-10, 10:25 PM   #103
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Default One or a billion boring synopsi on this issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Msterieus
Well, being in a profession that many say sucks the blood of clients, I could argue with you, to the extent, at least, that many who own apts. and the like are individuals, not companies. Still, I think we both come out on the same side: property owners who rent it out should not get the advantage of Prop. 13.

It's true, you could pick up even the bigger of the 2 cats -- if you could catch her. (She's a fraidy cat.)

"Prop 13" was headed by Howard Jarvis, a lobbyist for the Los Angeles Apartment Owner's Association. The proposal, in 1978, was supposed to "roll back" property taxes to their 1976 rates, which would result in 57% decrease in taxes. Jarvis told renters that this would benefit them, as it would cause apartment owners to decrease rents, but, of course, they never did. This led to rent control laws being passed in many cities.

Yes, it would decrease property taxes, rolling them back to '76 levels, resulting in lower property taxes. But, to be eligible for this, you had to have been in possession of the property for more than 3 years. Uh-huh, that sounds reasonable, roll the taxes back to what you were paying 2 or 3 years ago on that same property. The entire reason they wanted to do it was that property values were rising at incredible rates, in some places, by 3% per month! This was a thing that would roll back the valuation of your property to what it was in '76, and so you'd be taxed at that rate instead.

But if you add in the fact that because property values were going up so fast, and people were gaining more in equity than they were paying on their mortgages, they soon figured out that they could make a lot of money if they would sell their homes in order to realize that profit. Indeed, at the time, most home owners kept their homes an average of only 2 years! In the technicalities of Prop 13, a property could be reassessed at the higher, current rate only when it came on the market.

So, just how are apartment owners, and owners of commercial and industrial properties different from your average home owner? They don't fucking SELL their properties! If a company goes out of business, or if they want to transfer ownership, why, they can just lease the property instead. And that's what they did, effectively shifting the burden of property taxes onto anyone who bought homes after Proposition 13 was passed.

"Big Business" sold the common man a bill of goods, sold them on the idea that this was a "Tax Revolt" that would benefit everyone, but in fact, it only benefited big business. Hidden in the law is a thing that prohibits states and localities from raising any taxes without a 2/3rds vote of the legislature. We know how that works, (or doesn't).


Credit to Robert Crook for this particular statement.
There are many more I could add to this.
It no longer amazes me how uninformed the general populace is.

Last edited by soulpatch; 07-11-10 at 10:29 PM. Reason: attribution
Old 07-12-10, 06:39 AM   #104
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Default Re: One or a billion boring synopsi on this issue

Neither public employee nor attorney, I'm just an ordinary shlump who paid taxes, and looking back over 50 years of this forced investment, don't believe I got a very good bang for the buck. But I worked in a simpler world, usually measured on whether or not my department made a profit and/or I did not exceed a budget that I participated in setting. Fail at either or both of those and I was out of a job or a promotion.

Any tax legislation is sold with some component of altruistic motive while it's proponents do the best they can to hide favoritism, consequences and unintended consequences. It has become far more a tool for legislative social engineering and control and votes.

I'd love to see a flat tax on income. No sales taxes, property taxes, capital gains taxes etc. no singles, dependents, deductions and schedules nada. It could be progressive, the aggregate of state and federal, it would not exceed 25% of income. It would be collected by the states. The states would negotiate with Congress on the amount of revenue that goes into Federal coffers. In any fiscal year, if a state or the fed runs a deficit....all members of its legislative body are precluded from standing for re-election in the next election cycle.

With this, and the 37 pages of Glass Stegall... none of today's mess, and the bigger one looming on our doorstep would have happened/be happening. That's the easy part. The amount of capital that would have been available boggles the mind and soars the imagination of what this most free and creative of societies could have achieved.

Last edited by dusty; 07-12-10 at 06:52 AM.
Old 07-12-10, 10:45 AM   #105
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Default Woops, I did it again....

Won't it be nice when I don't involve myself with politics?
I know those around me will be happy.....
Ruining a perfectly good thread.
I have become one of those guys.
Old 07-12-10, 10:56 AM   #106
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Default Re: Soulpatch, I found the perfect starter home....

No problem soulpatch; the closer you get to retirement you will find that you will bite your tongue less and less. It's a rite of passage of sorts...

And I personally favor the flat sales tax approach with groceries and meds excluded. Those who have more money, spend more money and pay more taxes. Those who need to / choose to live frugally are not penalized for taxes on their savings/investments.

Of course that pipe dream will never see the light of day...
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Old 08-24-10, 09:55 PM   #107
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Default Re: Soulpatch, I found the perfect starter home....

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
No problem soulpatch; the closer you get to retirement you will find that you will bite your tongue less and less. It's a rite of passage of sorts...

And I personally favor the flat sales tax approach with groceries and meds excluded. Those who have more money, spend more money and pay more taxes. Those who need to / choose to live frugally are not penalized for taxes on their savings/investments.

Of course that pipe dream will never see the light of day...
Is this a solar energy issue?
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Old 08-25-10, 09:55 AM   #108
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Default Re: Soulpatch, I found the perfect starter home....

Actually we are in the photo uploads sub-forum on seascapes. Only a slight hijack...

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