Off-Grid / Solar, Wind or Generator? When the power lines don't quite reach that far...

Old 08-15-10, 08:12 AM   #21
Marty Cortez
 
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

It's the difference between how much per hour/day/week...

and how much right now. Super important to not co-mingle/confuse that when the main purpose of the calcs is to come up with figures per day/week.

Power bills are usually in kWh = kilo(1000) Watt(volts x amps) hours; battery capacity usually expressed in amp/hours, necessitating multiplying by your particular voltage to convert.

Hope that confused cleared that up a little.
Old 08-15-10, 11:50 AM   #22
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

I hear you Marty and that was the main way I looked at this when I first dove into off-grid. The longer I work this system and learn, the more you end up just focusing on monitoring your battery bank. It all comes down to charging amps in, total amp-hours storage capacity and the battery charge depletion measured in amp-hours out.

Watts and kW-hours are useful units that we use to calculate the consumption that gear like this A/C unit will pull from the system, but it always gets back to your basic amp-hours in the end.

The battery bank of ncampion could theoretically be expressed as 62.4 kW-hours capacity but that amount could never reach its final destination. Because of natural battery losses, cabling losses and inverter losses the net kW-hours will be anywhere from 15 to 40% less, depending on how tight his system is designed, not to mention that he sets a max discharge level he doesn't want to exceed to extend battery life.

The assortment of losses are very difficult to measure effectively and so the more useful unit of measurement for an off-grid system goes back to basic battery capacity in amp-hours, and how to keep them as high as possible.

At least in my simple mind it does....
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Old 08-15-10, 01:27 PM   #23
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Wooo, BG and others, thanks for your thoughts. Your calcs generally agree with mine, it was nice to see them expressed in such an understandable manner. I don't plan to run the A/C unit except at night to help keep the temp tolerable for sleeping. Our house is foam insulated and by using good "temperature management" during the day, we hope to keep things reasonable during the day and use the A/C to cool down the bedroom only at night. We have the other standard energy loads, however all appliances are new, US Energy Star appliances and low wattage lighting. My experience with a 225 sq. foot poorly insulated room here in Loreto, the A/C compressor cycles only about 20 minutes per hour to maintain 78 F in the room during these hot summer nights. I'm expecting similar or better efficiency in a well insulated room, so I'm sure the 5 hour model should be close to reality. We rarely have cloudy days on the SOC so don't think we'll have the 3 day issues you might experience on the West Coast. I've considered putting on another string of batteries, but want to wait to see how it works out. If I decide to do that it will be within the first few months so I won't have different age batteries to worry about. Thanks again for the feedback, that's what makes this forum so great.
Old 08-15-10, 01:45 PM   #24
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

No problem my friend - we all learn together here. The more I gain experience in the off-grid lifestyle I come to understand that this is not an exact science. There is no one system fits all approach with so many variables based on needs, budget, sunlight, wind, available technology, full-time/part-time living, security, space, convenience, etc etc etc.

You are smart to test the system hard while your batteries are still new, so you won't have any problems adding on.

I am at the stage now that I have added too many batteries and now need to go shopping for more panels. Will be adding another kW of mono panels in the next 30 days. I found a good supplier north of the border selling Sharp mono panels at just a little over $2.30 out the door.

I really am liking these 8D's so far as my "learning set"...
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Old 08-15-10, 04:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

BG, do you have a link to see the panels?
Old 08-15-10, 05:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by ncampion
W...the A/C compressor cycles only about 20 minutes per hour to maintain 78 F in the room during these hot summer nights. I'm expecting similar or better efficiency in a well insulated room, so I'm sure the 5 hour model should be close to reality.
I didn't think about the cycling of the compressor. Just because it draws XX amount of watts, it doesn't mean it's drawing that much constantly. Duh.

Just like my my freezer. It draws 5 amps (600 watts) when it's running. If it actually ran 24 hours a day it would draw 14,400 watts a day. In reality, due the the compressor cycling on and off only a few times a day, it only draws 640 watts a day. (I've been monitoring it with a Kilowatt meter). I didn't think about an AC unit running in a similar manner.

We plan to plumb for a mini split in our bedroom (If we ever get started building ). I figured we'd just run the generator to cool the room down on the few nights a year it's too hot to sleep. We wouldn't use it enough to spend the $$ on the amount of panels that would be necessary to run it.
Old 08-15-10, 07:30 PM   #27
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by noproblemo
BG, do you have a link to see the panels?
This is a deal I worked out with a solar panel distributor in Murrieta. I can ask him if he would extend you the deal if you like...
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Old 08-15-10, 07:34 PM   #28
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWooo
I didn't think about the cycling of the compressor. Just because it draws XX amount of watts, it doesn't mean it's drawing that much constantly. Duh.
I figured there was some savings fmor cycling but there is also higher draw at startup. Testing over time will tell the true power consumption.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWooo

We plan to plumb for a mini split in our bedroom (If we ever get started building ). I figured we'd just run the generator to cool the room down on the few nights a year it's too hot to sleep. We wouldn't use it enough to spend the $$ on the amount of panels that would be necessary to run it.
I would suggest that you spend some extra bucks on design/insulation to maximize the natural cooling effect as much as possible. It will save you lots over the years and help keep your solar system running efficiently....
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Old 08-16-10, 05:53 AM   #29
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
I would suggest that you spend some extra bucks on design/insulation to maximize the natural cooling effect as much as possible. It will save you lots over the years and help keep your solar system running efficiently....
We've planned as much as possible to use natural cooling and shade to keep the interior cool. There are, however, a few weeks during the summer where our side tries to imitate La Paz and the nights are hot, humid and windless. No amount of cooling efforts work on those nights. So far this year, that doesn't seem like it's going to be a problem though. It's been unusually cool.
Old 08-16-10, 07:47 AM   #30
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by noproblemo
BG, do you have a link to see the panels?
Solar Panels as low as $1.20 per watt
These guys have blems in the $1.70/watt range. I think LarryC in BOLA sent me this link - I've not ordered from them yet.
Old 08-16-10, 08:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago
Solar Panels as low as $1.20 per watt
These guys have blems in the $1.70/watt range. I think LarryC in BOLA sent me this link - I've not ordered from them yet.
Believe we'll be adding 2 more 175 KW panels to go with what we already have. Thanks.
Old 08-16-10, 08:11 AM   #32
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Wow - how did I miss these guys??? Great prices...
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Old 08-16-10, 04:11 PM   #33
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago
Solar Panels as low as $1.20 per watt
These guys have blems in the $1.70/watt range. I think LarryC in BOLA sent me this link - I've not ordered from them yet.

That's where I got all my panels. I got 24 of the 205 W panels. Picked them up with my trailer, no tax even. It's just a big wherehouse but worked out good for me.
Old 08-16-10, 04:55 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncampion
That's where I got all my panels. I got 24 of the 205 W panels. Picked them up with my trailer, no tax even. It's just a big wherehouse but worked out good for me.
Where is their warehouse???
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Old 08-17-10, 06:28 PM   #35
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
Where is their warehouse???
Phoenix, AZ. Hope that doens't ignite any hostile feelings about AZ.
Old 08-17-10, 07:03 PM   #36
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Well no wonder they are so cheap - they're using all that undocumented labor over there...

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Old 08-20-10, 08:56 AM   #37
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago
Solar Panels as low as $1.20 per watt
These guys have blems in the $1.70/watt range. I think LarryC in BOLA sent me this link - I've not ordered from them yet.
I bought my panels there, good people to deal with and they occasionally have some really fantastic prices. Shipping can get a little high, so if you can pick them up yourself as ncampion did you can save even more.
Larry
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Old 08-20-10, 09:18 AM   #38
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigWooo
J.P., we have Starband and I've been looking for spare parts in case something fails. Do you have the Nova system?
I dont know which system it is but i will check it out. I would expest there more modern systems out there
Old 08-20-10, 10:26 AM   #39
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

JP
If the modem is silver in color then it is a 360, 480 or a 484. If the modem is black and says "Skyedge" on the front it is a Nova. The outdoor units are all the same.
Bigwoo
If you ever find yourself in need of any parts, I have everything, modems(480 and 484and Nova) Transmitters, LNB's, dishes, feedarms, tri mount masts, etc, etc.
Larry
PS you probably use a larger dish than the normal .75 meter and I don't have any of those.
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Old 08-20-10, 10:59 AM   #40
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Default Re: Off-Grid Info

The modem is silver, The dish is still on the roof .I would imagine its a 460 it wasnt much better than telnor dial up. We used it about 4 years until we were able to get dsl from telnor. Like I said its here if someone needs it come get it.





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