TalkBaja.com » Baja Mexico Forums » Baja Art, Music, Culture & Literature

I am not sure where this post should go or if it is even too relevant.
I am currently enjoying reading "Pocho" written by Ramon Ruiz.
It is old but so am I. I grew up around labor camps and watched the whole Cesar Chavez organizing effort from a first person view.
I am going to start looking for references for some decently written Mexican history. It has to be well written, though or else I will just put it down.
I am kind of simple like that.

I bought this one and it has proven very useful...

The Course of Mexican History

Mexican history of which you speak has distinctly different sources. Reports of Mexicans in the US written by SOB Mexicans will differ greatly from what is written NOB. The emotions behind the observations are miles apart. As an example, I'll use the book name, Pocho, to illustrate my point.
All Mexicans know what a Pocho is......a Mexican who was born in the states. They are written about with empathy and understanding by NOB authors, probably because they are Pochos as well.
The SOB author will treat them with derision, implying that they are traitors to the mother-land for leaving her and not sharing in the suffering that is at the base of the Mexican soul.
I've heard Mexicans here refer to the Pocho tourist from the states as, "Men without a country." They come down here, get crying drunk, then verbally turn their back on their birthrite, their US citizenship, and profess devotion and kinship to the Mother-Land, Mi Tierra, when in fact, in the eyes of the Mexicans the ties have been cut long ago.
They arn't Mexican and they don't accept what they are, Americans.

It's really difficult to find NOB topics that don't drift into the "Viva La Raza" viewpoint. For that reason, I stay away from it. It is the most confrontational, entitlement based bunch of crap that I have found.

I was married to a wonderful Mexican woman for over 20 years and boy did she provide the SOB version of history on a regular basis. I was amazed at how different the viewpoints are.

California, New Mexico and Arizona are really still part of Mexico as far as many are concerned. They gave up on Texas. Everybody there has a gun.

We can argue whether or not the southwest "acquisition" was fair but I would simply ask what most here would think today if Canada used the very same tactics to take over the Pacific northwest from the US? History is ultimately written by those who win the wars but viewpoints across borders will forever disagree on that same "history".

Proof of that is all over Europe and Asia.

Manifest Destiny set it's sights on unoccupied land. Mexico wasn't doing anything with it and lost it. Mexico is doing more with the lost land today than they ever did.

Now.......Pacific Northwest? Are you talking about Alaska? Our Alaska?
Come and get it, Canooklians. Canada will be our 51st state. Hell, they don't use 90% of the land they have.

I know, Ron....you were just throwing out a "What if."

I get the whole NOB?SOB perspective....vastly different. Hell, just look at our own revisionist history.
The Mexican history I was served up, being a product of 8 years of Catholic school, was pretty much God and glory....with some brutal "converting" and disease thrown into the mix but with benefactor missionaries/enslavers.....
A dichotomy I would say.
I am sure the Spanish have their own special spin on it.
Anyway, I am going to read the BG's recommendation and that should lead to more.
I should get Gnukid's recommendations...seems like he is voracious researcher. I am looking forward to meeting him down south. I guess that was a sidetrack, there.
Gee, man behind the curtain, Senor Gringo, how about a literary topic category? Or did I already overlook it?
I have no doubt there a few dedicated readers here.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Gee, man behind the curtain, Senor Gringo, how about a literary topic category? Or did I already overlook it?
I have no doubt there a few dedicated readers here.

I just expanded one that should fit...

Art, Music, Culture & Literature...

Originally Posted by DENNIS

Manifest Destiny set it's sights on unoccupied land. Mexico wasn't doing anything with it and lost it. Mexico is doing more with the lost land today than they ever did.

Now.......Pacific Northwest? Are you talking about Alaska? Our Alaska?
Come and get it, Canooklians. Canada will be our 51st state. Hell, they don't use 90% of the land they have.

I know, Ron....you were just throwing out a "What if."

Having had the opportunity to live and work on different continents around the globe over several decades has given me the opportunity to see and hear how history is written and viewed across many different borders. There is no singular view of these issues, no matter where you go and it just seems obvious that we all carry a bias on these differences, based on which side of said border you happen to consider "yours".

It is impossible to turn back the clock but my life experience has at least given me some perspective to simply see why others may not share our viewpoint. Something else to consider is that many borders around the globe may very well be "redrawn a bit" in the coming years under the growing wave of globalization.

Originally Posted by TravelPro787

I was married to a wonderful Mexican woman for over 20 years and boy did she provide the SOB version of history on a regular basis. I was amazed at how different the viewpoints are.

California, New Mexico and Arizona are really still part of Mexico as far as many are concerned. They gave up on Texas. Everybody there has a gun.

That's funny!

Soulpatch- What makes you think gnukid is a "him"?

Just ordered Ron's suggestion and this also http://www.amazon.com/Mexico-Reader-...=pd_rhf_shvl_1
from my local library.

Frank.......Go to Amazon.com and under BOOKS in the menu...type in Mexico History. Everything in the world is available there and in places which it will lead you to, such as, below the info on a chosen book, it will have a section of "also read" books on the subject. Click the right arrow and pages of titles with cover fotos will come up. This is different, but related, for each book selection.
You won't believe what's available. Hide your credit card and limit the Pacificos or you'll end up with a home library.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TravelPro787
I was married to a wonderful Mexican woman for over 20 years and boy did she provide the SOB version of history on a regular basis. I was amazed at how different the viewpoints are.

California, New Mexico and Arizona are really still part of Mexico as far as many are concerned. They gave up on Texas. Everybody there has a gun.
That's funny!

Soulpatch- What makes you think gnukid is a "him"?

Well, his name for one. It's just not very feminine....

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Just ordered Ron's suggestion and this also http://www.amazon.com/Mexico-Reader-...=pd_rhf_shvl_1
from my local library.

So how do I get to name the links I post? I didn't see that option in the link thing.

To name a link just type the name of the link first and then highlight it. Once highlighted with your mouse then click on the link icon above in the post post (globe with a chain link) and enter the link url. Voila!

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Quote:
Soulpatch- What makes you think gnukid is a "him"?

Well, his name for one. It's just not very feminine....

His name is Paul. He's not a her.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

His name is Paul. He's not a her.

Well, I just didn't want to out him if he wanted anonymity....if that is possible. I think he liked confusing a few of the easier to confuse among us.

Originally Posted by soulpatch

Well, I just didn't want to out him if he wanted anonymity....if that is possible. I think he liked confusing a few of the easier to confuse among us.

I doubt that he cares what people think. He seems to be a very complex individual.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

I doubt that he cares what people think. He seems to be a very complex individual.

Yeah, no doubt. He's definitely a deep thinker.
Can you tell I'm at home with sick twins today?

Originally Posted by DENNIS

I doubt that he cares what people think. He seems to be a very complex individual.

I'll go with "complex". "Deep" implies more than being able to find and regurgitate dogma.

Originally Posted by Bajahowodd

I'll go with "complex". "Deep" implies more than being able to find and regurgitate dogma.

Go with what you got.
I am just basing that on some private dialogs I've had with him.
But, that being said, I am kind of a simpleton.