TalkBaja.com » Baja Real Estate Advice / Discussion » Before you even think about buying property

This is a shot in the dark for me, but I think it is important that Southern Californian's be made aware of the danger of purchasing land/property here in Baja, California

Please, please, if there is something that you can do to publicize what is happening to us here in Baja (7 miles south of the San Diego Border)
Use us as a glaring example and forewarning of the corruptness of land sales down here. Doesn't matter what bank, notary, etc....they seem to be null and void if someone comes along and claims title to your property, as is what has happened in our case.


We are a group of Americans who purchased parcels of land from a Lange Corporation here in Baja...precisely at KM 18,,, It is ocean front property; some have owned their property for over nine years.


Every one of us went through all of the legal channels, including notaries, permits, FM3 and paid Santander Bank twelve thousand dollars each to keep the property in trust, since we, are Americans, and can not own property in Mexico. -And paid the annual fee to Santander Bank for the Trust as well as annual property taxes.

Now seven years later, after we have built our homes, they are claiming that this is not our land. We were never ever notified previously.

It is prohibitively expensive to defend ourselves, and some of us don't have the funds....it will cost between twenty-five to fifty thousand dollars each, depending on the current value of the house.
Santander Bank has left us out in the cold...they claim they didn't know anything, haven't heard anything and it's our problem.

I am in absolute shock that this has happened to us. We are innocent victims in this situation and will need huge amounts of money if we want to keep our homes.


Mexico is enticing Baby Boomers to come down and buy property...especially now, that they are changing the law, that Americans can now own property. Ha.



It's been a horrible, painful experience. This was my life's savings.

Thank you so much for anything you can do to expose this further.

Originally Posted by michael

...precisely at KM 18,,, It is ocean front property...

So this place next to El Colegio de la Frontera Norte; Richard Y Lange?

Cuz I'm finding some interesting stuff trying to Google "Lange Corporation + Baja California"...

HIV-VAC Restructures and Acquires a Mexican Corporation
HIVV Profile & Executives - Grupo International Inc - Bloomberg
sigues cansado de un trabajo inestable?? - Tijuana - Otro trabajo - vendedor ambiental
http://www.tododeconstruccion.com/Gr...e_CV__8146.php
Linked from above page: Bienvenidos a Grupo Richard
Google

This is the first I have heard of this - could you please provide more details/specifics of where you bought, who you bought from, who is contesting your title, etc???

So very, very sorry for what you are experiencing...

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

This is the first I have heard of this - could you please provide more details/specifics of where you bought, who you bought from, who is contesting your title, etc???

So very, very sorry for what you are experiencing...

My heart sank when I read this post. My partner Alonzo and I looked at these exact lots before deciding on downtown Rosarito. We didn't see any red flags- but were newbies to Baja real estate at the time too. We know what it is like to face a land thief in the face and have them tell you they have too many friends in Mexico for you to fight them and win.

I have personally talked to the US Consul General for Baja- who is a member of this site. He knows Americans have been and continue to be victims in many disputes similar to this. Your location is just a stone's throw from where Trump's clients lost their money too. I suggested to him that having a list of known SAFE investment projects (like a BBB seal of approval) would not only be informative for investors like you, but would encourage other projects to meet the requirements for that "seal of approval". (Step one: Either they have a national land title or they don't- and ejido conversions don't count). It could be that simple a first step because that's what most disputes come down to- who owns the land. I think a program like that is needed, even if only to educate investors on what to look for.

You should yell, kick and scream at the promoters of Baja Real Estate to clean up their act. Write or call Hugo Torres Chabert- who is head of the Baja Image Committee. Write to the US General Consul- or send him a private message on this board. Just because Mexico is stuck on stupid on this issue doesn't mean we have to be treated like sheep for slaughter when the checkbook comes out. The down side of that is when you expose them, they will attack you with everything they have. I had the head of Rosarito AMPI (realtor association) attack and threaten me for posting an ad for Play Bonita condos that promised land titles when the property is on the Federal Zone. They have no shame. It is not a crime to mis-advertise in Baja like that- until the money changes hands... which at that point is too late.

Sadly, it's the people of Baja who also continue to suffer from these acts of fraud. When a few connected people steal from us Americans and Canadians it prevents investors from considering Baja at all which continues to cause a loss of jobs, tourism and feeds the economic downturn here.

I'm glad you joined the board and I'm glad you are talking about it. Make sure your voice is heard, and heard by the right people. I'm so sorry this happened to you. Stay mad as hell and shout as loud as you can.

Originally Posted by Woooosh

I suggested to him that having a list of known SAFE investment projects (like a BBB seal of approval) would not only be informative for investors like you, but would encourage other projects to meet the requirements for that "seal of approval".

I don't think the Consulate will interfere in Mexico's rendition of free market economy where the motto rings loud and clear, "Caveat Emptor." There just doesn't seem to be any restrictions to predation until the wrong person is swindled. The Ejidos do this regularly.

Originally Posted by michael

"...apparently, a company, namely, Tourismo Pacifico is saying they won the land dispute in 2006 and that the Lange Corporation, whom we bought the land from, never responded to the courts, and neither did the bank...won by default..."

Nothing online that ties to this under both variations of that name.

Wooosh: I believe that you have very good advice worth it's weight in gold. Although on the internet it's probably weightless is besides the point.

Michael: I'm very sorry to hear that this happened. There is a lot of knowledge on these boards and people here are willing to help. Use this forum to gather information and resources for your coming battle(s). . . .. and best of luck!

Originally Posted by Marty Cortez

Nothing online that ties to this under both variations of that name.

I am not exactly sure where the property is but I do know that ten years ago they were selling lots in a few small developments around El Colegio de la Frontera Norte. If the title fight was over a relatively small piece of property it is unlikely that there will be much to find (easily) in the way of a paper trail online.

I'm sure Sandra Dibble of the San Diego Union Tribune would like to know more about this.....nothing like bad press to stir things up.

Originally Posted by Teniente

I'm sure Sandra Dibble of the San Diego Union Tribune would like to know more about this.....nothing like bad press to stir things up.

I think Wooosh ought to drive up the road on a fact-finding mission.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

I think Wooosh ought to drive up the road on a fact-finding mission.

Of course I did Dennis, going north and south. I didn't see that billboard. He didn't say it was a recent photo. Based on the description I'm thinking it's the same small cluster of homes across from the college Baja Gringo is talking about.

Originally Posted by Teniente

I'm sure Sandra Dibble of the San Diego Union Tribune would like to know more about this.....nothing like bad press to stir things up.

I not taking the bait but I am biting my tongue.

Originally Posted by Woooosh

I not taking the bait but I am biting my tongue.

Yeah. I was laughing too hard to type, so I let it go.

Originally Posted by Woooosh

...I didn't see that billboard. He didn't say it was a recent photo...

It was a Google Street View.

Figured it could go away at any moment so it would be a good idea to preserve it. Location of it and the KM18 highway marker precisely located on the satellite pic.

I bet it's that small cluster of homes between the two.

Originally Posted by Marty Cortez

It was a Google Street View.

Figured it could go away at any moment so it would be a good idea to preserve it. Location of it and the KM18 highway marker precisely located on the satellite pic.

I bet it's that small cluster of homes between the two.

I know a American Dr. that built a house there.He droped a couple hundred thousand dollars there and walked away.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

I don't think the Consulate will interfere in Mexico's rendition of free market economy where the motto rings loud and clear, "Caveat Emptor." There just doesn't seem to be any restrictions to predation until the wrong person is swindled. The Ejidos do this regularly.

You might be surprised of the conversations that could be started behind closed doors.

As you said they usually do not interfere but they do have some behind the scenes influence.

As Woooosh said "You should yell, kick and scream".
To and at everybody who will listen or not.
I also agree that the news papers a great start and will head a warning to others.

Actually, maybe a in response to the article news paper article "US company to invest $600 mn in Mexico" that Noticia so kindly posted http://www.business-standard.com/art...0400387_1.html might help stir up some......

Here's a clumsy panorama from the KM18 marker to the billboard...

and another blast-from-the-past about 1 mile north of there.

The guy I know House is on the south end by the driveway going down toward the water his house is the one that has the flat roof on it . it was supposed to be a two story but he stopped construction when he figured it was in trouble.and washed his hands of it.

Originally Posted by CDN_JOHNNY

As you said they usually do not interfere but they do have some behind the scenes influence.

Oh sure. "Some" is an understatement.
I remember about twenty years back when The US Coast Guard intercepted three large boats 150 miles off the coast of Baja. Stopped them in their tracks because they were loaded with Chinese illegals headed to the coast to make their way north to the US.
This became a huge international event in Ensenada with press from around the world coming to town to get the story.
The US was telling Mexico they had to take the people, maybe a couple hundred of them, and deport them back from where they came, and Mexico was saying screw you. Your immigration problems aren't ours. Not very neighborly at all.
Well....the negotiations adjourned to the back room and when all was discussed, the boats were escorted to port, unloaded in single file right onto busses which took them to TJ airport and back to China.
I have no idea what was said in that back room, [perhaps a picture of the Colorado River looking like the Dust Bowl was tossed on the table] but I do know who prevailed.

The failure of México to ensure safe real estate investment opportunities has bit them in the butt big time. Not only are there 17 unfinished condo developments in the Rosarito-Ensenada corridor, the sale of existing homes is rather difficult. This has forced sellers to rent out homes they wanted to sell. The huge number of rentals has driven the prices down to where the Deportees call Rosarito Beach Santa Monica South. No lie. The deportees have taken over Rosarito Beach. The police don't seem to have a handle on it- or they have the wrong handle. The murder rate is 87% higher than last year so far... With our luck this will be the only thing Mexico can get up to 100%.

A friend told me he had a "problem" with deportees near his mother's house in Ensenada recently and talked with a friend in the FBI stateside. In two days the place was cleared out by the Mexican Army. The USA works very closely with Mexico - don't believe otherwise.