Off-Grid / Solar, Wind or Generator? When the power lines don't quite reach that far...

Old 12-13-09, 09:29 PM   #1
BajaGringo
 
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Default Using an RV generator for home use?

I have a Yamaha 6600DE generator I had thought about using to hook up to our electrical panel for power. Currently I have it on wheels and it is a great generator for use around the house during construction and projects - it has never let me down. I also have a 7.5 KW Kohler RV generator I could pull out and hook up to the house and leave the Yamaha free for moving around and outside projects.

I was curious if any of you had installed an RV generator for home use and would be willing to share their experiences / advice / ideas?



Old 12-14-09, 08:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

I'm no expert by any means but...

I think you can just connect the hot and neutral from your generator to the main breaker's hot and neutral input lugs, then branch off from the individual breakers to your outlets and lights. I believe a transfer switch is only for homes that are connected to city power. It keeps the generator from back feeding power into the grid. Since you don't have power, it's probably unnecessary

You will need to provide a good ground though. Inside the main breaker there will be a neutral buss bar and a ground buss bar. The neutral buss will have white wires that go to your individual circuits connected to it. The ground buss will have all the (sometimes green) or bare copper ground wires to all your individual circuits connected to it. Now of course this is Mexico and the wires could be any color, mine were all black, with some stereo wire thrown in

The wires leaving the bottom or side (depending on how they're mounted) of the individual breakers (should be black) are the hot wires that branch off to the individual circuits.

The two busses (neutral and ground) must be bonded together in the main breaker panel. Most breaker boxes have a screw you tighten that bonds the two busses together. If not, jumper them together with a piece of #6 wire. Neutral and Ground must only be tied together at one place

From where the ground and neutral busses are tied together you will then run a (at least #6) wire to a 4' copper ground rod. Use a bonding clamp to secure the wire to the ground rod. You should also ground the frame of the generator to the ground rod with #6 wire. If the generator is located some distance from the house, it should have the frame tied to it's own ground rod, then the two ground rods should be tied together (bonded) with a run of #6 wire.

Check the generator specs and make sure the ground and neutral are not tied together in the generator somewhere. If they are, figure out how to separate them.

The wire from the generator to the panel should probably be something more substantial than just #12 romex. Your power use and distance of the generator from the panel will determine wire size, but you should use at least #6 wire or larger to be safe (especially with the sound system of yours )

I'm pretty sure this is the safest way to hook up a generator. Someone please jump in if this is wrong!
Old 12-14-09, 08:56 AM   #3
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

I am having a deja vu moment right now...

Still trying to decide what to do with the generator ground wire - whether to tie it directly to the buss or to the ground rod. Will do a bit of research and see what I come up with...
Old 12-14-09, 09:27 AM   #4
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

I never quite intuitively grasped all the intricacies of grounding, but for sure it is very, very important.

Especially for audio electronics apart from safety considerations. That ground is where all the filter capacitors send the noise. Kinda like a drain for unwanted transients.

Old 12-16-09, 07:22 AM   #5
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
I am having a deja vu moment right now...

Still trying to decide what to do with the generator ground wire - whether to tie it directly to the buss or to the ground rod. Will do a bit of research and see what I come up with...

I guess I got carried away on my explanation. I got the impression you were starting from scratch. We are bringing down a generator this trip and I plan to hook it to the ground rod. I'm looking back through my stuff to see if I can find the grounding info I read in the past.
Old 12-16-09, 07:41 AM   #6
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

I can't find where I read about the grounding, but I use this web forum when I'm stumped with something: Solar Electric Power Discussion Forum by Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Powered by vBulletin

There are a lot of people on this site who would be willing to help answer your question

Here's another site, more specific to Outback Solar equipment, but it has a lot of useful info.

OutBack Power Systems User Forum Index page
Old 12-16-09, 08:43 PM   #7
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

I replied on the other site as well, but wanted to add a couple things to what BigWooo was saying.

You mentioned you already have #6 (I think) wire running to the location where the generator will stay. Hopefully you have 4 wires running to that location, for the hot-hot-neutral-ground.

The Yamaha looks like it is a 240v generator, as most stand-alone generators are. I don't know about the RV generator, you'd have to look at the nameplate rating. We haven't dealt with RV generators before.

If you take a 120v generator and hook it up to your panel, you'll only have half the circuits working.

BigWoo mentions- "If the generator is located some distance from the house, it should have the frame tied to it's own ground rod, then the two ground rods should be tied together (bonded) with a run of #6 wire."

I suppose if it's in a separate building a couple hundred feet away, this might be a consideration. Also might need to be looked at for the RV generator which may only have 3 wires/lugs, but if you use the Yamaha, it has the ground in the plug/cord that you should use and it soulnds like the location is close to the house. I wouldn't worry about grounding the Yamaha chassis.

Also, the description of how the panel will looks with the neutrals on one side and the grounds on the other is how the panel SHOULD look! All the neutrals on one side, all the grounds on the other side. However, we've seen many panels where all the neutrals and all the grounds are all mixed up together on both busses. This in not wrong and it is safe since in the main panel the neutral buss and the ground buss are connected.

Where the separation of the neutrals and the grounds becomes an issue is in a sub-panel where the neutral must be "floated" (separated from the ground). You are not dealing with a sub-panel (that I know of) so don't worry if all the neuts and grounds are all mixed up.


Can you find the RV generator nameplate and either photo or post what it says?
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Old 12-16-09, 08:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

OH Yeah! Marty just reminded me! Make SURE you put in dedicated circuits with isolated grounds for the stereo equipment! Too late for that???

Aw, well, get one of those gizmos from Radio Shack...they do work for sensitive equipment!
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Old 12-17-09, 07:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

Well, I am feeling a bit better now. The generator will be enclosed in a cement block shed right behind the house and close to the panel. I am aware of the ground / neutral problem with a sub-panel and that won't be an issue.

Help me out with the hot-hot-neutral-ground. Why do I need two hot wires to light my panel circuits???

And I do have my audio gear on its own isolated circuit. Was that ever in doubt???



I will try and get a photo of the RV generator nameplate. It is a Kohler Model 7CM21

Here is how much I know about it:

7000 watt / 120volt / 58 amp AC output
Old 12-17-09, 08:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
...Help me out with the hot-hot-neutral-ground. Why do I need two hot wires to light my panel circuits???...
It has to do with eventually being on the grid.

Typically you will be supplied with 2 "phases" A & B; black and red(when you connect something to both of them, you get 240 volts) and a neutral. Panels are typically wired with half the circuits on the A phase and half on the B phase.

The reason you can share the neutral is that the peak voltage on each phase does not occur at the same time. They are 120 degrees out-of-phase with each other, so at any instant in time the current is not additive.



You get 2 of those to your house. 3 phase is typically an industrial motor application I believe.
Old 12-17-09, 08:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

OK, that makes sense...
Old 12-18-09, 02:10 AM   #12
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

Rated Voltage120V / 240V AC Frequency60 hz Maximum AC Output6600 watts Rated AC Output6000 watts Rated / Maximum AC Current

will probably have to edit this but~
7000 watt / 120volt / 58 amp AC output

The Yamaha has the 240v rating, the RV generator is 120v.........as far as I can tell....

50.0 / 55.0 amps @ 120V - 25.0 / 27.5 amps @ 240V
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Old 12-18-09, 07:32 AM   #13
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Default Re: Using an RV generator for home use?

I believe the RV unit (Kohler) is 7000 watts rated / 7500 max.






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