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Originally Posted by BajaGringo

What - you take a swig between clips???

Nope, just trying to get back on topic!!!!!

Originally Posted by Bajahowodd

OK. I'll bite. If one looks around the world at peaceful industrial democracies, you will find that almost with out exception, weapons are banned. Seems to me that the US is just entering puberty on this issue. A civilized society does not need to have guns abounding. Just like the century's long debate about the second amendment, which is bogus. Way back in the day, when there was no standing army, the thought behind the second amendment was to ensure a militia that could defend our nation. Today, we have the world's pre-eminent military force. Not to mention literally millions of civilian police. But there are those among us who seek to shape the words of the constitution to support the idea that every Tom, Dick, and Harry has the fundamental right to carry lethal weapons.

To me, the entire gun lobby consists of folks who have low self-esteem, and feel the need to have a "Linus blanket".

Untold numbers of murders and maimings occurred only because folks who were not capable of controlling their anger, but had access to lethal weapons, were able to act out.

With all due respect, sir, I believe that the second amendment was put in place to insure that if ever our government became a tyranny, the citizenry would have the means to overthrow it. How many people around the world live under tyranny because they have no means to overthrow their respective governments? It appears as if you still live in Mayberry next door to Andy, Aunt Bea, and Opie. Police cannot protect us all. They show up after the fact and take a report at the crime scene. I own guns and I do not run outside with my gun looking for someone to shoot like some sort of Wyatt Earp every time something goes "bump" in the middle of the night. I will tell you this, I thank God for the second amendment. When I was living in L.A. I did have to use my weapon to deny entry to a crazed person bent on entering our home in the wee hours. Weapons have always been a part of our lives. My father taught us all how to shoot and how to handle weapons responsibly. Imagine that, kids from East Los Angeles being responsible gun owners. I do believe that we are due for some sort of natural disaster and if someone comes and tries to take my food and water supply, what do you think I'll protect it with, a baseball bat? Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by bahiafalsa

How many people around the world live under tyranny because they have no means to overthrow their respective governments?

I do. That's one too many. Will you help me? I'll buy a big boat and well sail out of Mexico to Washington DC. We'll name her the Grampa.
I've been having visions in HD lately. I like your hat. We'll make it part of our uniform.
Do you have a gun? We need a gun.

Originally Posted by bahiafalsa

With all due respect, sir, I believe that the second amendment was put in place to insure that if ever our government became a tyranny, the citizenry would have the means to overthrow it. How many people around the world live under tyranny because they have no means to overthrow their respective governments? It appears as if you still live in Mayberry next door to Andy, Aunt Bea, and Opie. Police cannot protect us all. They show up after the fact and take a report at the crime scene. I own guns and I do not run outside with my gun looking for someone to shoot like some sort of Wyatt Earp every time something goes "bump" in the middle of the night. I will tell you this, I thank God for the second amendment. When I was living in L.A. I did have to use my weapon to deny entry to a crazed person bent on entering our home in the wee hours. Weapons have always been a part of our lives. My father taught us all how to shoot and how to handle weapons responsibly. Imagine that, kids from East Los Angeles being responsible gun owners. I do believe that we are due for some sort of natural disaster and if someone comes and tries to take my food and water supply, what do you think I'll protect it with, a baseball bat? Just my opinion.

Look. I cannot overturn what the current SCOTUS has proclaimed. But history provides ample evidence that the second amendment was included in the constitution because at that time there was no standing US army. Any defense of the new nation would have be done my the local militias. I'm not going to overkill this topic, but it just seems to me that there are way too many folks who somehow justify gun ownership on the basis of being able to defend themselves against domestic entities, such as the police or the US army. It is the gun lobby, manufacturers and their ilk that serve to gin up the debate. Paranoia just doesn't seem to me to be ample justification. Fact is, that the US leads the world in gun related deaths. I'm done.

Howard,

Great set of posts from you today. You follow the liberal talking points closer than anyone I have ever read or met. You seldom deviate one iota.

In just three posts today.....................


1. Anti-gun
2. Republican politicians are dorks
3. Illegal immigration is ok



So, in the spirit of the season, congrats for being so consistent.

Ken

In the spirit of the season I totaly agree with point 2. point 1 and point3 are too vague. I personaly think there are enough laws to deal with the other two points.if the people would insist they be followed. Until that happens In the meantime if you get caught in the middle of a gunfight KEEP YOUR HEAD DOWN

Originally Posted by tripledigitken

Howard,

Great set of posts from you today. You follow the liberal talking points closer than anyone I have ever read or met. You seldom deviate one iota.

In just three posts today.....................


1. Anti-gun
2. Republican politicians are dorks
3. Illegal immigration is ok

So, in the spirit of the season, congrats for being so consistent.

Ken

I'm grinning, Ken. Kinda weird in that I'm sure that you and I are poles apart on many social and political issues, BUT, for some reason, I truly believe that we could have tons of fun together. Really hope that sometime in the not too distant future, that could happen.

That's because there are good people on both sides of any debate. It only requires mutual respect.

Feliz Navidad to you and family.

I kind of agree with JP on this one.

On point one - I am not anti-gun but I do think we need laws to draw a line. I find it hard to justify the need for a private citizen to own large caliber, fully automatic weapons.

On point three - I am not for illegal immigration but I find the current policy both unfair and not working which is why I believe the (illegal) immigration we are seeing today is bringing a stronger flavor of the criminal element as more and more of the generally honest folks are staying home.

On point three - I agree that Republican politicians are dorks. But equally so are the Democrats which is largely why we are in the quagmire we are in.

Just my dos centavos...

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

I kind of agree with JP on this one.

On point one - I am not anti-gun but I do think we need laws to draw a line. I find it hard to justify the need for a private citizen to own large caliber, fully automatic weapons.

On point three - I am not for illegal immigration but I find the current policy both unfair and not working which is why I believe the (illegal) immigration we are seeing today is bringing a stronger flavor of the criminal element as more and more of the generally honest folks are staying home.

On point three - I agree that Republican politicians are dorks. But equally so are the Democrats which is largely why we are in the quagmire we are in.

Just my dos centavos...

You all agree and I'm not surprised. But that was my point wasn't it? You libs follow the party line pretty close.

Of course it's just politics and has no bearing on who breaks bread with each other.

Feliz Navidad

Originally Posted by tripledigitken

You all agree and I'm not surprised. But that was my point wasn't it? You libs follow the party line pretty close.

Of course it's just politics and has no bearing on who breaks bread with each other.

Feliz Navidad

I am a liberal???

Was a registered Republican and voted the party ticket straight down religiously from the time I first registered to vote until just a few years ago. At that time I switched to Independent and in reality I probably lean more to Libertarian these days.

Some folks assume I am liberal just because I find fault with the Republicans. My list is just as long for the Democrats and probably why I have lost so much faith in our current political system. It is all becoming pure theater IMHO.

And you are welcome to come break bread and even tip a glass or two at the BajaGringo ranch anytime...

I find it funny, if you disagree with a r. winger you are a lefty. most of the time i disagree with both.and never agree with the extreme of either party. I like to think of myself as a moderate.I cant ever rember voting a straight ticket. In todays climate i find myself thinking why even bother.

Philosophies morph over time. Remember that the first Republican president was Lincoln. Not to mention that a major reason for the formation of the party was an anti-slavery agenda. Teddy Roosevelt, another Republican, was an iconic conservationist.

During much of the early and middle 20th century, the leading segregationists throughout the South were Democrats.

Time appears to change everything.

On a personal note, growing up in New York back in the 50s and 60s, the government was dominated by liberal Republicans. Think Nelson Rockefeller, Jacob Javits, John Lindsay. These folks were the dominant Republicans of the day. Seems to me that they may have been more liberal than half of today's Democrats.

The more I watch the show in DC the less I pay attention to labels like liberals or conservatives. It sounds good on Sunday morning news shows and cranks up the volume at partisan rallies but the truth is that the real agenda is neither left or right but greed for money and the power to give them more access to it.

Don't believe me?

Ignore the rhetoric for awhile as I have and pay more attention to the deals that are ultimately made, the votes cast and who are ultimately the REAL winners and losers in the end. When you do the partisan labels quickly fade and the theater element becomes much more obvious...

On the same page with you on this one... they become part of the entity once in the power structure which exists in Washington D.C..

If there are those who really think voting on these issues and sending a new rep back to D.C to get things going... ya haven't a clue on how its played back there or in Sac or take your pick of any State capitol... that's way it is not changing... rather stays the same, no matter what one votes...

This has been going on for sometime.. and is in fact a controlling entity over our lives..

Check what the new ones, who just got elected are doing and are facing once they are back in the mix in D.C. It works one way... and if you think it doesn't ... well, guess we could argue but, it Christmas.. so let's not ... there is Jan 2, 2011 to do that... plus the Budgets which are coming up...

Some folks get mad when I suggest that all of them (politicians) are corrupt. Truth is there probably are a few honest ones who get elected. The problem is that almost all of them end up getting corrupted by the real workings of the political system and under pressure from the heads of their own party who will not allow any new renegade to come in and upset the system that has benefited them so well and for so long.

Those truly honest ones who manage to resist the temptation and pressure are pushed to the back of the line. They will never see a committee assignment, receive support for any legislation to benefit their constituents back in their local district and will become another no-name politician that is easily defeated the next time around.

This type of corruption runs rampant through both major parties and is financed (and directed) by lobbyists who have the most control over which way the important votes swing.

That is the current status quo and the suckers are we, the people...

Originally Posted by tripledigitken

Howard,

Great set of posts from you today. You follow the liberal talking points closer than anyone I have ever read or met. You seldom deviate one iota.

In just three posts today.....................


1. Anti-gun
2. Republican politicians are dorks3. Illegal immigration is ok



So, in the spirit of the season, congrats for being so consistent.

Ken

A lot of them are. For some strange reason there is a gravitational pull towards dorkism in the current incarnation of the republican party. Somehow they've evicted the moderates and have zero tolerance or open mindedness. But one thing is right about the gun laws especially in Mexico "Only the criminals will have have guns if made illegal!" I don't have a problem with guns as long as their not machine gun automatic.

Originally Posted by BohemiaBeerBash

A lot of them are. For some strange reason there is a gravitational pull towards dorkism in the current incarnation of the republican party. Somehow they've evicted the moderates and have zero tolerance or open mindedness. But one thing is right about the gun laws especially in Mexico "Only the criminals will have have guns if made illegal!" I don't have a problem with guns as long as their not machine gun automatic.

I find it odd that some one new would pull up a string that is a year old . but the argument remains the same little has changed in the past year the dorks now have a year's experince and are even dorkier same goes for the radicals. It tends to make one warm on the inside doesn't it
By the way welcome to the board.

Re: Gun Ownership,
What's that saying?..." I'd rather be tried by a jury of 12 of my peers, than carried feet first by 6 of my friends!"

Originally Posted by J.P.

I find it odd that some one new would pull up a string that is a year old . but the argument remains the same little has changed in the past year the dorks now have a year's experince and are even dorkier same goes for the radicals. It tends to make one warm on the inside doesn't it
By the way welcome to the board.

In the spirit of the election year it struck me funny and somewhat appropriate comment for the times.