TalkBaja.com » Baja Real Estate Advice / Discussion » Before you even think about buying property

Glad to see a Rosarito op-ed columnist address this issue. I had read the lady who caused the recent mess in Cantamar was the fifth wife or something of the original land owner, I had no idea she was once a Rosarito Madame. No wonder the men love her.

If Baja is serious about attracting investors they do need to get the land problems squared away. The past problems occurred when no internet was available for investors to do their homework. That has changed, but the crooks don't seem to care... yet they wonder why no one is buying.

"Cantamar is only an example of the time bomb created by the fraudulent buying and selling of properties in our state, many times with bribery of authorities, with the lack of land trusts, lack of a title history and concessions this is fertile ground for corruption to flourish, unpunished thievery by crooked lawyers and minor politicians."

Rosarito Blues: Cantamar | San Diego Reader

I keep thinking that the deeper pockets behind all the stalled coastal projects would eventually force a solution to this mess. Apparently they either don't have enough money or are not that interested in working this out right now. Maybe the're just waiting for the US real estate market to recover first.

That could be a very long wait...

It's sad that the few stalled tower projects identified as "title safe" for investment, like Naos in Rosarito- can't be completed. I don't know where the money comes from to fill those "deep pockets". The Rosarito recovery may be safe project-by- safe project as investors regain confidence in the local market. If we can help steer investors those legal, solid projects it will help Rosarito turn the corner.

I don't think Rosarito real estate will rebound soon until they reprice everything relative to the US housing market downturn. I've watched the billboards for one Rosarito project (greenhaus) drop prices from $149K to $75K and they still aren't selling- so price alone may not be the key.

Whatever happened with the Diane Gibson real estate/fraud problems???

Originally Posted by Teniente

Whatever happened with the Diane Gibson real estate/fraud problems???

I think she is gone, but her legal problems are still unresolved. I liked Diane and she showed Alonzo and I few properties. At the time she was pushing the $MIllion homes just south of Puerto Nuevo that were being built by some Orange County CA developer. We were just looking for the right lot to build on.

Diane is the perfect example of what went wrong in Baja real estate. All the buyers came at her so fast in the mid-2000's that it looked like the flow of money and buyers would never end. Buyers were even buying multiple properties and Trump Baja sold out in two days breaking the Mexico real estate sales record. No one thought they needed construction completion bonds because the pay-as-you-build system was working (in hindsight it looks like a pyramid scheme). Concerns about land titles being legal (or even existing) were quashed with "in house title insurance", although that created another set of problems that still exist.

Diane didn't set out to defraud anyone, she got caught up in it probably didn't get a fair shake from her Mexican partners when the rubber hit the road. That's different from TIla Ortiz and Playa Bonita Condos where the sellers took over Federal Zone land, and offered it for sale "with land titles" that didn't have. This is the last I have seen of one of the cases against her:


Baja California coastal real estate was booming in late 2006 when Dawn Nicoli and her husband, Bruce Hoey, bought into the upscale La Esmeralda development planned in southern Rosarito Beach.

The Escondido couple said they felt safe paying $375,000 for two parcels of prime oceanfront property. They trusted their American real estate agent and the U.S. firm she represented, Realty Executives, and felt encouraged by their positive first experience buying property from her in Mexico.

But more than four years later, the land is nothing but a vacant lot. The couple has filed lawsuits on both sides of the border in their increasingly frantic struggle to obtain a refund. The property has a $1.8 million lien, and the Mexican company that took their money, Empresa Constructora Fortaleza, has long since closed shop.

The case is one of several involving Americans who said they mistakenly placed faith in U.S. real estate franchises or projects promoted by U.S. companies in Baja California. While affiliation with well-known U.S. firms or names may be a powerful marketing tool, it confers no special protection in Mexico.

Experts said buyers can safeguard themselves far more by asking lots of questions, seeking out qualified attorneys or other independent consultants, and understanding what they are signing before they hand over large sums of money. Title insurance and escrow accounts — even though not mandatory in Mexico — are now widely available and offer a measure of security.

“The vast majority of people buying in Mexico have done it safely,” said Christopher Hill, chief executive of Stewart Title of Latin America. But in a different legal system and without some of the checks and balances that are standard in the United States, U.S. consumers are advised to exercise “an additional level of self-protection and due diligence,” he said.

Rule No. 1: Don’t pay for a property until you have the title. “Until you get the piece of the paper with the title, the home is not yours,” Hill said.

Seeking remedy after the fact can be a lengthy, confusing and costly process.

More than two years have passed since buyers of Trump Ocean Resort filed suit in Los Angeles Superior Court seeking the return of more than $20 million in deposits. The lawsuit now involves nearly 200 people, many of whom said they were drawn to the project because of its association with New York real estate magnate Donald Trump.

When the project was unveiled in 2006, Trump told the Union-Tribune that he was “a significant equity investor” in the planned hotel-condo project in Tijuana. It later turned out that he only allowed his name to be used for marketing purposes.

The developers — Los Angeles-based Irongate and its Mexican counterpart, PB Impulsores — lost their financing in 2008 when a construction loan fell through, and the project was scrapped early in 2009. By then, $32 million in buyers’ deposits had been spent.

Trump has distanced himself from the project since terminating his license agreement in January 2009.

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CDDG (across the toll road from Baja Malibu in Rosarito) went belly up too. They came in at the tail end of the boom with eco-friendly condos and townhouses. The money was gone the day they wrote their check.

I fault Diane because she was out to sell property and houses. She put all of this info out on her web site regarding Baja/Mexico real estate, however she did nothing to verify the ownership validity of the properties and did nothing to protect the buyer. I know, "Buyer Beware".

Originally Posted by Teniente

I fault Diane because she was out to sell property and houses. She put all of this info out on her web site regarding Baja/Mexico real estate, however she did nothing to verify the ownership validity of the properties and did nothing to protect the buyer. I know, "Buyer Beware".

Do you think she knew the ownership of the lots and land under the houses she was selling was in question? I don't know the details of what she promised and how she conducted her business, since we didn't buy from her. Was Realty Executives offering title insurance of some sort that would not cover the ownership claims? It would seem the couple in the photo bought two lots and they ended up owning nothing. How did that go down?

Yes, I suppose "buyers beware" applies- but all the necessary info was stacked against the buyers. Today you can find all the due diligence info on line, but back them there was very little cautionary info with the exception of Nancy Conroy's Gringo Gazette. Instead of accepting the land title problems and frauds she exposed and fixing them- they kicked her out of town. Now 7 years later the same problems still exist and the Realtors expect everyone to just forget the past abuses and trust them. But what has changed? Nothing except people have access to the info if they want it. That's why it is more important than ever to Baja's investment future that we educate investors and point them towards legitimate projects with valid land titles.

I would love to get archived copies of the Gringo Gazette. The internet has literally been scrubbed clean of all that info- which is actually very hard to do.

Originally Posted by Woooosh

Do you think she knew the ownership of the lots and land under the houses she was selling was in question? I don't know the details of what she promised and how she conducted her business, since we didn't buy from her. Was Realty Executives offering title insurance of some sort that would not cover the ownership claims? It would seem the couple in the photo bought two lots and they ended up owning nothing. How did that go down?

Yes, I suppose "buyers beware" applies- but all the necessary info was stacked against the buyers. Today you can find all the due diligence info on line, but back them there was very little cautionary info with the exception of Nancy Conroy's Gringo Gazette. Instead of accepting the land title problems and frauds she exposed and fixing them- they kicked her out of town. Now 7 years later the same problems still exist and the Realtors expect everyone to just forget the past abuses and trust them. But what has changed? Nothing except people have access to the info if they want it. That's why it is more important than ever to Baja's investment future that we educate investors and point them towards legitimate projects with valid land titles.

I would love to get archived copies of the Gringo Gazette. The internet has literally been scrubbed clean of all that info- which is actually very hard to do.

I find it hard to believe that she was selling (somebody's) property without verifying ownership. "Gee. he listed the property with me, and I sold it. I really didn't know he didn't own it"...........we stopped in her office once, talked to her and never returned.

Originally Posted by Teniente

I find it hard to believe that she was selling (somebody's) property without verifying ownership. "Gee. he listed the property with me, and I sold it. I really didn't know he didn't own it"...........we stopped in her office once, talked to her and never returned.

Yeah, I would have to agree with you on that. She was sparing no expense outfitting her office at Puerto Nuevo and that struck us strange at the time (I think there was even a baby grand piano).

You can't complain about the standards of a Realtor in Mexico when there is no standard for Realtors in Mexico that I am aware of. There is no schooling, exams, certification or licensing that I am aware of. They do have codes of conduct within the real estate associations, but it's hardly the same as a professional Realtor north of the border.

Just to make sure I am current, does anyone know the current legal requirements in Baja to be a Realtor (beyond the magnetic sign for the car)?

By now the risks of trusting all Realtors in Mexico should be common knowledge for people looking at investing. I doubt that was the case seven years ago. It just gives people a heads-up and forces them to do their due diligence, it doesn't break the deal. Do you think Diane's customers had any clue they needed to ask more questions, or was she licensed north of the border before moving to Mexico- so they felt her expertise north made her an expert in Baja too.

I think people were relying on their US based brain when they were in Mexico. They didn't do their homework. They thought that dealing with a gringa and Realty Executives in Baja was the same as dealing with Realty Executives in the US, and trusted her to look out for them.......and Diane laughed all the way to the bank

Originally Posted by Woooosh

Yeah, I would have to agree with you on that. She was sparing no expense outfitting her office at Puerto Nuevo and that struck us strange at the time (I think there was even a baby grand piano).

You can't complain about the standards of a Realtor in Mexico when there is no standard for Realtors in Mexico that I am aware of. There is no schooling, exams, certification or licensing that I am aware of. They do have codes of conduct within the real estate associations, but it's hardly the same as a professional Realtor north of the border.

Just to make sure I am current, does anyone know the current legal requirements in Baja to be a Realtor (beyond the magnetic sign for the car)?

By now the risks of trusting all Realtors in Mexico should be common knowledge for people looking at investing. I doubt that was the case seven years ago. It just gives people a heads-up and forces them to do their due diligence, it doesn't break the deal. Do you think Diane's customers had any clue they needed to ask more questions, or was she licensed north of the border before moving to Mexico- so they felt her expertise north made her an expert in Baja too.

Howdy folks. I guess I have to consider myself extremely fortunate because the Mrs. & I did buy from Realty Executives and virtually without a hiccup. We knew nothing of Mexican real estate laws (or lack-there-of) & relied on the two sales-gals at the branch office in San Antonio del Mar. They seemed exceptionally knowledgable, had been in the bussiness a while & most importantly, were honest throughout the showing of properties & final transaction.
This just my two-cents. Unfortunately, my better-half
's cup has run amuck with all the negative media regarding "Mexico". Not to mention our SADM neighbors being less than "neighborly' some of the times we're there.
For myself, I enjoy Baja immensely and hope to visit more of it.'Til then.

I think that is the danger that US based real estate firms run into when they allow licensing of their name to foreign based firms. At a minimum they should enforce very some strict legal requirements and professional standards to be able to operate under the umbrella of that company name. That is simply not the case.

It is understandable how some unassuming buyers could be fooled into thinking that they were dealing with a Mexican office of a US real estate firm, especially if they promote the very recognizable Realtor emblem proudly on their front door, something they can do via their membership in AMPI.

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

I think that is the danger that US based real estate firms run into when they allow licensing of their name to foreign based firms. At a minimum they should enforce very some strict legal requirements and professional standards to be able to operate under the umbrella of that company name. That is simply not the case.

It is understandable how some unassuming buyers could be fooled into thinking that they were dealing with a Mexican office of a US real estate firm, especially if they promote the very recognizable Realtor emblem proudly on their front door, something they can do via their membership in AMPI.

Yes. The use of trusted brands was, as still is- part of the problem. In 2011 the President of AMPI (Eduardo Rosales) threatened me for disclosing the Playa Bonita Condo project he (and Gustavo Torres) was selling was sitting in the Federal Zone and had no land title. They had an "open house" sales event scheduled and I RSVP'd for the open house with 30 neighbors to protest the sale- targeted to American investors. He pulled the listing, canceled the Open House and the next week made a public statement about fraud in real estate not being acceptable. Mind you this is years after folks like Realty Executives and Trump Baja did their damage to the Baja market. (It's not hard to know if there is a land title, and a sample Land Title is posted on this site for reference).

Here is the actual Real Estate flier. If we had not challenged this sale on our end, does anyone think you could have fallen for this scam? They are offering land titles or escrituas in 2011 for land that became Federal Zone in 2005 (BTW: today they use the Playa Bonita condos for short-term rentals only and have not again tried to sell them again... but they likely will)



How would you like to buy a lot in a fairly expensive sub-division like ours, work your whole life to retire to enjoy your view of the Coronado Islands and then see this illegal tower going up in front of your house? This is why the neighbors RSVP'd to protest the sale. BTW: Playa Bonita is a USA outfit operating in Mexico as Grupo Aries. Not Mexicans ripping off Americans, but other Americans (typically the case).

I noticed on the sales brochure that it lists Financing Available. What bank would give a mortgage on that property?

Originally Posted by Miguel-BarSQ

I noticed on the sales brochure that it lists Financing Available. What bank would give a mortgage on that property?

probably in-house financing. A closed loop. you wouldn't know you had a problem until you went to sell it.

btw: That Playa Bonita condo tower had a man measuring the Federal Zone line today. I went outside to clean off the CFE ZFMT marking in the street for him and we talked a long time. The man said he was hired by the condo because papers were served notifying them they were on the Federal Zone. I gave him the co-ordinates to our concession, which was just re-verified last September and matches the point in the street.

After 5 years of sitting there empty, why would the Playa Bonita towers still need convincing they are in the Federal Zone? This man shared his concerns about land fraud in Baja and said it was hurting the local economy recover. He sees it impacting local tourist-based and construction jobs and he is right. It was good to hear him say that. We are not alone in wanting the land title problems fixed here, that's good to know.

Here' the CFE team marking the Federal Zone point on the street. You can see the blue wall behind them we installed to keep cars off the beach. We were given the maximum fine for installing that wall on the Federal Zone without a permit. (If they move the line I want the money back. )

Roxana Soto spoke on video regarding the Cantamar ex-pat land and eviction situation.

Most common mistake people using Real Estate people is they think the agent is looking out for their interest. By law the Agent looks after the interest of the SELLER and is bound to report any and all things they find out about the buyer to the SELLER.
ALWAYS REMBER LOYALTY FOLLOWS THE MONEY.

Originally Posted by J.P.

Most common mistake people using Real Estate people is they think the agent is looking out for their interest. By law the Agent looks after the interest of the SELLER and is bound to report any and all things they find out about the buyer to the SELLER.
ALWAYS REMBER LOYALTY FOLLOWS THE MONEY.

Diane Gibbs has a current listing. Ask her.

Homes for Sale in Rancho Del Mar, Playas de Rosarito, Baja California $239,000

Diane Gibbs closed her Puerto Nuevo office but is still in business. Last I heard she was working out of her home office.

Originally Posted by bajaangie

Diane Gibbs closed her Puerto Nuevo office but is still in business. Last I heard she was working out of her home office.

So I guess Mexico filing charges against her for the $4Million fraud hasn't slowed her down. There is no shame down here. With all the info about her now on-line, a buyer would have no one to blame but themselves for calling her.