TalkBaja.com » Baja Mexico Forums » Off-Grid / Solar, Wind or Generator?

Duh...just answered my own question. I guess they are separated...one's 12V and the other 24V

I probably didn't include enough information for it to be clear. Taking another look at it now I can see how it may not be real intuitive so let me explain a bit more. The circuits in the panel will not actually be separated but the feed line into the panel will be switched between 12v, 24v and the generator. I will use the 12v bank at night and the 24v bank during the daytime.

I decided to go this route as the wind turbine I inherited is 12 volt and I also have four 60 watt 12 volt panels that came with our motor home. I decided that would work well to cover our nighttime power needs for watching late night TV, master bath/closet areas, exterior lighting and such as the wind turbine should keep producing juice when the sun has gone down and help avoid draining that battery bank too low.

The bulk of our panels are 24 volt and that battery bank will feed a 24 volt industrial PSW inverter I picked up that should cover our daytime energy needs quite well. Just in case we hit a spell with no sun / wind (extremely rare here) we have the generator for backup.

I did a quick field test yesterday with the wind turbine just to see what I might be able to expect (hope for). We hooked it up to the diversion controller and a battery, with the wind turbine attached to a 15 foot pole tied to some scaffolding I was using. There was only a very slight breeze detectable at ground level but the turbine immediately took off and we consistently registered 4 to 8 amps for over a half hour.

The permanent tower will have the turbine sitting at 35 feet off the ground so we should get even better performance as there will be no obstructions nearby to create turbulence.

Notice that I said should...

Are you using any 12 volt lighting at your new place?

I have had many try to convince me that I should use 12 volt lighting around the house. After giving it a lot of thought and talking to others who have done it I will use some low voltage lighting on the exterior - self powered solar lights. In fact we already have many in place and they work great. A couple of my motion sensor lights are 80 LED and really bright.

The rest I will run off 110. It just seems to make a lot of sense when you think about the wiring size needed and safety issues...

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

I did a quick field test yesterday with the wind turbine just to see what I might be able to expect (hope for). We hooked it up to the diversion controller and a battery, with the wind turbine attached to a 15 foot pole tied to some scaffolding I was using. There was only a very slight breeze detectable at ground level but the turbine immediately took off and we consistently registered 4 to 8 amps for over a half hour.

The permanent tower will have the turbine sitting at 35 feet off the ground so we should get even better performance as there will be no obstructions nearby to create turbulence.

Notice that I said should...

At 35 feet you should get a lot of wind. As a comparison, I have a wind gauge about 12 feet off the ground, my neighbor's is about 25 feet up. His regularly registers around 11 mph more wind than mine. Amazing how much the wind increases with height.

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

I have had many try to convince me that I should use 12 volt lighting around the house. After giving it a lot of thought and talking to others who have done it I will use some low voltage lighting on the exterior - self powered solar lights. In fact we already have many in place and they work great. A couple of my motion sensor lights are 80 LED and really bright.

The rest I will run off 110. It just seems to make a lot of sense when you think about the wiring size needed and safety issues...

I think 12 volt lighting inside is a pain. You need minimum 10 gauge wire. In our guest house we ran 10 gauge wire in case we decided to do some 12 volt lighting. 10 gauge is a nightmare to squeeze into standard switches and junction boxes. Definitely not worth the cost or hassle. We didn't wind up putting any 12v lights inside.

We use 12 volt for the garden lights and some outdoor accent lighting outside though. Another good place for a 12 volt light is in the utility room. I have a 12V fluorescent in the utility room in case I need light to work on the electrical with the inverter turned off.

Originally Posted by BigWooo

At 35 feet you should get a lot of wind. As a comparison, I have a wind gauge about 12 feet off the ground, my neighbor's is about 25 feet up. His regularly registers around 11 mph more wind than mine. Amazing how much the wind increases with height.

Another added benefit of the increased height is more distance between the turbine and the roof or any other obstacles that will create a wave of air into your blades which causes turbulence = less consistent power.

The noise is much less too!!!

Originally Posted by BigWooo

I think 12 volt lighting inside is a pain. You need minimum 10 gauge wire. In our guest house we ran 10 gauge wire in case we decided to do some 12 volt lighting. 10 gauge is a nightmare to squeeze into standard switches and junction boxes. Definitely not worth the cost or hassle. We didn't wind up putting any 12v lights inside.

We use 12 volt for the garden lights and some outdoor accent lighting outside though. Another good place for a 12 volt light is in the utility room. I have a 12V fluorescent in the utility room in case I need light to work on the electrical with the inverter turned off.

I agree and I do like your idea of keeping 12v lighting available in my utility room for moments when I need to work on the system and 110 is not on.

Another thing we have been doing is charging small solar lanterns during the day. We keep them placed around the house at strategic locations at night so as not to step on the dog or stub a toe. They really do work well and they last all night. I wasn't thinking of using them long term but they have performed so well we are thinking we want to keep them around now...

So why do so many go with 12 volt lighting? Lower consumption and less voltage loss by avoiding an inverter?

Probably but I think it is a bad decision IMHO. I have been getting a lot of messages and mail on the whole wind-solar, hybrid energy system we are putting together and the two main questions I keep getting are how much noise and how much wind is "enough"? The noise question is one that I cannot answer for sure until we have this one up and running and have lived with it for awhile. maybe the fact that my hearing is not 100% what it used to be will help?



As far as the wind speed, we seem to have our fair share plus some out here and I posted earlier about my unscientific 30 minute test from a couple of weeks ago which looked promising. I did some searching for some real data and came up with this map:

Did you find a hybrid MPPT charge controller?

No - I am just going to run the solar panels through MPPT and the wind output to the batteries directly in conjunction with a Coleman Air diversion controller. Seems to be the best way right now I could come up with...

That wind map is great. I spent hours and hours looking for something like that without success.

I looked too Wooo and was unable to find anything until I came across this by accident while reading an article about a Spanish company investing in Baja wind farms. I am getting everything together to begin putting my pole structure together for the turbine. I really am anxious to see how it will perform. If it can just give me a few amps an hour to help keep my batteries topped off overnight I will be happy...

I'm looking forward to hearing how it works out. So far, if the winds where you are have been as strong as ours this spring...you won't need solar!

You too?

I am glad that I have taken my time to do a lot of research on wind turbines as there is a lot of misguided info out there and why (I think) so many folks have had less than positive experiences with them. The biggest complaint I have heard so far is not the noise but that they burn out the turbine generator, just weeks or months after the initial install.

That is because they treat it like a solar panel and run it through a charge controller instead of directly to the batteries with a diversion controller. I am setting up my system to give me some good data feedback so I should be able to give you a pretty accurate report as to how well it works.

Another note I forgot to add - I was able to cut a deal with somebody here locally who was buying a wind turbine. They wanted a 12 volt so I gave them mine and we bought the same one in 24 volt. Should be here later this week.

More work on the system design now but it is so much fun living now without the noise of a generator. We are watching our consumption as we don't have all our panels up yet and the wind turbine still needs to be installed.

But I think I am going to like this off-grid lifestyle...

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

...think I am going to like this off-grid lifestyle...

Well; according to Murphy's Law, we now know with near-certainty when the grid will arrive at the beach.

Bajagringo
I know this thread is a couple of months old. I figured by now you would have everything up and running so I could ask some questions. First I have to admit that I have never seen a system with 2 inverters, 1 for day time and the other for night time. How is that working out? How do you switch between the 2 systems, a manual breaker switch or a timer switch? Same with the generator, what kind of switch. Just a manual transfer sw? What inverters did you use? Over all are you happy with the wind turbine?
Larry
PS I have 2 inverters but they are stacked, one inverter supports the other when a larger load is detected

I had a friend who needed and bought my original turbine and inverter (12v) so I replaced them with a 24v turbine and inverter. That made it easier so not to need the manual transfer switch I was going to install. I am glad you reminded me - I will update my system layout and upload it tomorrow...

What is the voltage of your system?

My system is 12v. If I had it to do over again I would go 24v. When I bought my first house it had a very small solar system consisting of 2-40 panels, an old Trace 2012 inverter, and 2 automotive batteries. Over the years I have upgraded, first to another inverter, a Trace DR2412, and then added solar panels. I burned up 2 elec. refrgerators with that inverter before I discovered that motors don't like modified sine wave inverters. I then switched to the Outback VFX 2812 and have not had a problem since. Later I added the second inverter. I did that because a few times while I was doing some welding and my wife was on the computer, the circuit breaker would pop and shut down the computer. She was not impressed with me. Since I added the second inverter I can pretty much run whatever I want with no problems. The advantages to 24v over 12 are mainly that you can use smaller cable between battery bank and the inverter. There are also larger capacity inverters available in 24v than there are in 12v. For me tho since I like the 2v batteries, I would have to buy twice as many of them for 24v as I would for 12v. Not too big a deal since I found a guy who has surplus batteries fairly often at a very good price. anyway thats my history.
Larry

Originally Posted by rplarry

...I was doing some welding...

Holy smokes, bro; that's a whole lotta power.