TalkBaja.com » Baja Mexico Forums » Working in Baja California / Mexico

Welcome to the site, Airgar.

It amazes me that Mexicans cross the border illegally in droves to literally do whatever they want, and we, as legal expats who would follow all the rules should be afraid of a public reaction to our working here.

Kinda makes one want to go into the fence building business.....doesn't it.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

Welcome to the site, Airgar.

It amazes me that Mexicans cross the border illegally in droves to literally do whatever they want, and we, as legal expats who would follow all the rules should be afraid of a public reaction to our working here.

Kinda makes one want to go into the fence building business.....doesn't it.

Dennis, you should see Cabo, droves of illegal americans and canadians working in the hotel and timeshare industry.

Originally Posted by JESSE

Dennis, you should see Cabo, droves of illegal americans and canadians working in the hotel and timeshare industry.

They should be removed. Why don't the locals get irate over the illegals working instead of those who bend over backward to work legally?
Are they doing jobs Mexicans won't do? Why don't Mexicans want to be sleazy time share sales people?

While we have you here,Jesse............will this affect your new menu?

Bottom Line - Horse meat may be back on the menu

Originally Posted by DENNIS

They should be removed. Why don't the locals get irate over the illegals working instead of those who bend over backward to work legally?
Are they doing jobs Mexicans won't do? Why don't Mexicans want to be sleazy time share sales people?

While we have you here,Jesse............will this affect your new menu?

Bottom Line - Horse meat may be back on the menu

Horse meat, a no no for most Mexicans, but maybe in the south, after all, they do eat iguanas and crickets.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

...Mexicans cross the border illegally in droves to literally do whatever they want, and we, as legal expats who would follow all the rules should be afraid of a public reaction to our working here.

Kinda makes one want to go into the fence building business.....doesn't it.

Only to get busted employing illegals to build something to keep them out.

"...The Golden State Fence Company's work includes some of the border fence between San Diego and Mexico..."

You CANNOT make this stuff up!

Originally Posted by DENNIS

Welcome to the site, Airgar.

It amazes me that Mexicans cross the border illegally in droves to literally do whatever they want, and we, as legal expats who would follow all the rules should be afraid of a public reaction to our working here.

Kinda makes one want to go into the fence building business.....doesn't it.

Whatever happened to "Two wrongs don't make a right"? Why should Mexico be any more accepting of foreigners violating existing laws & regulations by taking work & revenue away from Mexican citizens than the USA is of foreigners doing the same in the USA? Just because a foreigner; American or any other nationality; may be in Mexico legally, that means they have carte blanche to violate the laws & regulations which are built into that permission??

IMO, INM is far too lenient in the work authorizations that they do grant to foreigners. How INM can justify that "skills not found in country" could possibly extend to construction, boating & fishing jobs, real estate & even pool cleaning skills, to name a few....is ludicrous! That those skills cannot be found in country is totally beyond how my brain functions. It's one thing if these endeavors are creating jobs for the local population, it's totally different when gringos hire other gringos to do the work & those other gringos are granted FM3 or FM2 lucrativos as well!

Many, but by no means all, foreign residents & tourists are in the country legally, but there are strings attached to their presence either way. The bottom line is that we're all guests in a foreign country. I guess everyone can make their own personal decision of whether they choose to be on their best guest behavior or run the risk of being asked to leave & not be invited back.

I personally choose to be a good guest. But then I chose to obey the laws in my birth country as well....well, maybe except for that pesky one about speed limits occasionally!

Because of the way airgar publicly posted his intentions, I assumed he wasn't aware that there are currently laws, rules & regulations in place governing what he intends to do, so he now knows he can either apply for a waiver on those specific activities (and be prepared to form a corporation, register with Hacienda & hire an accountant to prepare & submit his taxes on a monthly basis << only the tip of the iceberg)....or choose to accept the very real possibility of having his boat confiscated & himself being made persona non grata in the country.

Besides, I took offense at his lumping us all under "The Old Guys"" umbrella!

In parting, I have another....much less famous....quote: "Aren’t two wrongs only the beginning?"

I met lots of gringos living and working down here without so much as a tourist visa, much less an FM3 or visa lucrativa. Human nature is what it is, on both sides of the border...

Originally Posted by DENNIS
Welcome to the site, Airgar.

It amazes me that Mexicans cross the border illegally in droves to literally do whatever they want, and we, as legal expats who would follow all the rules should be afraid of a public reaction to our working here.
------------------------------------------------------------------

See where it says, "Follow all the rules?" That means obey the law.


(edited)

Out of consideration for our new member, moved to it's own thread.

I may be totally off base here, but I wonder if baja locals see gringos like many NOB locals view hispanics? I think that we here tend to see all Hispanics, expecially those with limited English, as illegals. Isn't it reasonable to assume the same is true when Hispanics look at us?

If you are a legal alien worker in Mexico, or for that matter, in the USA, wouldn't it be in your best interest to work with locals to enforce documented worker regulations?

In Mexico, I'm just another big, pale guy with the spanish skills of someone who is more than mildly retarded. I'm just another one of many. Lost in the crowd until I learn the language, become known in the local community, and engage with locals on as many levels as possible.

Just like we expect Hispanics to do when they come here.

Islander, I'm too far removed from the Pacific Northwest by time & distance to have a current feel for your first point regarding any assumptions that all Hispanics not speaking fluent English in the states are perceived to there illegally. That was not my assumption when I was there prior to 1999.

But I'm in total agreement with your second paragraph both NOB & SOB, but sadly, as BajaGringo pointed out, human nature being what it is....

Having been in the La Paz area for 12 years, co-mingled with the fact that mastering Espanol in this age group, is a lot tougher for some of us, I can say that most people here do have the patience to make an attempt to figure out that this loco gringa's saying! It's very rare that anyone will mutter "no entende" & turn around & walk away as soon as I open my mouth. IMO, people are people regardless of country of origin, they come in all shapes & sizes & personalities, treat them with respect & that's most often what you'll receive in return.

With the exception of Immigration, banking & various legal activities, I'm rarely asked for proof of legal status. The only area that my status has made a difference is if I get stopped for "driving while gringo" (bogus mordida stops), even with BCS plates, the standard assumption is that I'm a tourist & usually when I tell the police that I'm a resident, not a tourist, they back off without even asking to see proof.

Mexican friends are aware of a few gringos who are here illegally, but they don't seem to view it as a huge sin, definitely not the way Immigration does or airline ticket agents do. But if I were trying to infringe on someones livelihood, I'd probably be getting totally different vibes!

I think another difference in the perspective of how Mexicans might be perceived NOB versus gringos SOB, could be largely numbers driven; there's an appreciably lower number of gringos SOB....well, that & the fact that the majority of us who reside here are predominantly at or past retirement age (aka old farts!).

My personal view is that regardless who what baja you are on, TRUE locals that are from baja don't mind americans, but that changes for mexicans from other parts of Mexico who have moved to baja. Since northern baja has more mainland mexicas living there, i think theres more anti americanism up there.

In my experience, people from the mainland have more negative views about americans, and us baja californianos dont, maybe because we are used to dealing with you guys and know your only another human being. For other mexicans your totally alien, and everything they know about you is what they see on tv and read.

Originally Posted by JESSE

My personal view is that regardless who what baja you are on, TRUE locals that are from baja don't mind americans, but that changes for mexicans from other parts of Mexico who have moved to baja. Since northern baja has more mainland mexicas living there, i think theres more anti americanism up there.

In my experience, people from the mainland have more negative views about americans, and us baja californianos dont, maybe because we are used to dealing with you guys and know your only another human being. For other mexicans your totally alien, and everything they know about you is what they see on tv and read.

I agree...

Legs, you said it better than I did.

My point was that it is human nature to be somewhat intellectually lazy, and that leads us to stereotype one another using the easiest available criteria. Skin color, language, accents, dress and customs make easy markers we can use to make gross judgements.

When we humans are afraid, we get even worse, and can make the most blatant assumptions about folks that we feel threatened by. That's how I got to the point of wondering if better communication between Ex-pats working legally in Baja and local workers and small business owners might help aleviate the problem locals are having with gringos working in their communities.

As Legs points out, once we've gotten integrated we tend to stop being the gringo, and start being Bob. But that takes a while even when we're trying. It never happens when we hide out in a cloistered development. Not making a value judgement about either approach to living as an ex-pat, just making the observation.

I think that my earlier post could have been read as racist, and I appreciate your giving me the benefit of the doubt.

Originally Posted by Islander

I think that we here tend to see all Hispanics, expecially those with limited English, as illegals. Isn't it reasonable to assume the same is true when Hispanics look at us?

If you are a legal alien worker in Mexico, or for that matter, in the USA, wouldn't it be in your best interest to work with locals to enforce documented worker regulations?

I believe it could depend on where one was raised. Me?? So. California where Mexicans were just part of the crowd at the mall. I grew up with them and can't see them as much different than me....if at all.

As to your second thought concerning taking on the roll as expat vigilante....it's best to mind your own business and carry on with your chosen life in a new country. If that's law enforcement, go for it. If not, stay out of it.

It may sound crude and tribal, but as the saying goes on both sides of the border, "Nobody likes a snitch."

.

Dennis, I grew up in So Cal as well. My friends were about equal part anglo and hispanic. I'm not making my point very well, I'm sorry about that.

I didn't mean to suggest that legal expats rat out those working without permits, I meant that folks working legally in Baja work along with the locals to promote legal businesses and workers. For example; a BOLA sport fishing cooperative that has a promotional website with the names and contact info for all the members, each of whom has all the permits?

This may never work, there may already just be too much strain between the locals and expats, and I'm sure that those of you who are in-country know the potential pitfalls better than I do.

I defer to the many who have more experience and first hand knowledge than I will ever have, Dennis among them.

Originally Posted by DENNIS

Welcome to the site, Airgar.

It amazes me that Mexicans cross the border illegally in droves to literally do whatever they want, and we, as legal expats who would follow all the rules should be afraid of a public reaction to our working here.

Kinda makes one want to go into the fence building business.....doesn't it.

Remember Cesar Chavez call the INS on illegal farmworkers... man, that dude was hardcore union!
Can't say I don't empathize with and appreciate that mindset.

You will find lots of cases where "legal" hispanics call INS on the illegals where competition for work becomes an issue. A paycheck often trumps skin color / race...

Illegal Working in Mexico...I though it was called International Trade and International Arbitrage. :>)

Originally Posted by BajaGringo

You will find lots of cases where "legal" hispanics call INS on the illegals where competition for work becomes an issue. A paycheck often trumps skin color / race...

Meet a guy in Cabo years back ... he was 72 and was getting out of Dodge... had been living in Cabo for a decade or so ... this was 1987 ..

Had retired down there and then started doing engine repair on boats.. as he was a mechanic ... his business did quite well, as he had all his tools and did a rather good job.. and did become quite successful ... which "cut" into local boat repair folks... big time...

Pressure was applied to where this guy had a hard time doing anything in town ... let alone do any "jobs" .....

The man was trying to leave and get back up and across the border and back to the United States... and was proving very hard.. as he was moving back into the economy of the United States after being in Cabo for many years... and in some cases it does get hard to go back to a higher economy ... from lower over all numbers to live.. back to the states..

Was down to go fishing ... and we had brought a "part" with us for this guy ... to repair a boat ... a heat exchanger which we were able to carry through custom's ... with many questions... was my first jump on bringing something in ... which provided interesting ... and an insight into ex pats living full time in Baja making a living working on the side... and how the locals felt about an American retired making a living in Baja.. with a small business which completed against them directly ... not to positive IMHO