Before you even think about buying property National land titles, ejidos, bank trusts and more...

Old 10-29-12, 01:19 PM   #1
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

One Federal Zone land dispute has been THE hot topic in Rosarito Beach since 2008: the case of Tila Ortiz-vs-Alonzo Nava. (full disclosure- Alonzo Nava is my legally married partner.) Although a "hot topic" it was a fairly straightforward legal case.

Tila Ortiz brought this dispute before the Director General of SEMARNAT in a letter dated April 2011 which is attached below. That letter claims Alonzo Nava used fraud to acquire the Federal Zone concession under a house she has owned and lived in for more than 20 years. Alonzo was given 14 days to respond to those claims in writing and his detailed response letter is also attached. On September 12, 2012 the Director General of SEMARNAT issued his ruling in favor of Alonzo Nava and that decision is attached below as well.

These are the facts in a nutshell: In 2006 Alonzo Nava applied for a Federal Zone beach concession for the area in front of his Rosarito Beach house. In 2008 his concession was approved, but it also included beach area outside of his application area. (SEMARNAT has the ability to tweak applications and concession areas and they did so). In the area awarded Alonzo Nava was an abandoned house in 2006, which Tila Ortiz had rehabbed and occupied between Alonzos 2006 application date and the 2008 concession award date. Alonzo latewr applied for more beach area in 2010 and the Federal Line was moved further east into the street- Paseo del Mar. In March 2010 Tila Ortiz obtained a form of land ownership document called a “Prescripcion Positiva”. However the Federal Zone is "inperscriptable" by Mexican law. With no valid proof of ownership and with 14 neighbors signing a letter stating Tila Ortiz had never lived there prior to 2006, the Director General dismissed all her ownersip claims and upheld the concession of Alonzo Nava as current, legal and valid.


Four documents attached:
1. Letter of Tila Ortiz to the Director General of SEMARNAT. April 2011
ORTIZ_CARTA_DG_ZOFEMAT.pdf

2. Response letter to the Director General by Alonzo Nava (Spanish version). August 2011
Nava_Semarnat_Esp_Final_Doc.pdf

3. Response letter of Alonzo Nava (English draft missing many revisions) August 2011
SEMARNAT_SGPA_DGZFMTAC_3189_FINAL_ENGLISH.pdf

4. Decision letter from the Director General of SEMARNAT. September 2012
SEMARNAT_NAVA_Sept_12_2012.pdf


There are dozens of other letters, videos, photos, maps and documents in this case. All the critical ones are mentioned in the decision or are included in the attached PDF files. I will post them individually if the discussion of this case warrants it.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 10-29-12 at 07:25 PM.
Old 10-29-12, 01:29 PM   #2
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

A couple of questions I have been curious about:

1. What proof has she submitted that she has spent 20 years there, other than her word?

2. Is she claiming any legal right to the property other than by squatting (sales contract, inheritance, etc)?

3. Who would be the federal agency that would have to act to have her legally removed?
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 10-29-12, 01:52 PM   #3
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
A couple of questions I have been curious about:

1. What proof has she submitted that she has spent 20 years there, other than her word?

2. Is she claiming any legal right to the property other than by squatting (sales contract, inheritance, etc)?

3. Who would be the federal agency that would have to act to have her legally removed?
I'll do my best on these answers:

1. She has shown no proof that we have ever seen. Her "word" was rejected by the neighbors, including one who was raised in that house during the time period Tila Ortiz claimed ownership. (If she had ANY form of ownership proof- she would not have needed to apply for the Prescripcion Positiva- which is the weakest from of ownership document.)

2. Not that we are aware of. It was mentioned on another website she had lost the ownership papers associated with an estate sale. Just hearsay though, she never presented it to SEMARNAT.

3. The Federal agency to have her removed would likely be PROFEPA.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 10-29-12 at 06:24 PM.
Old 10-29-12, 06:51 PM   #4
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

This 1:13 video shows Tila Ortiz and Alonzo Nava having a verbal confrontation over the concession (on January 5, 2010).

Alonzo asks Tila if she has a permit to be doing earthmover work on his concession. Alonzo retrieves and then shows Tila the Federal Zone Title. He tells her it is for preservation only and she can't do anything there without a federal permit. Tila Ortiz points to the concession binder and says to Alonzo "that is nothing". Alonzo then tells her he will file a "denuncia" against her.



This video with sound was mentioned (as an important factor) in the Director General's 21 page decision of Sept 12, 2012 which favored Alonzo Nava.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)
Old 10-29-12, 07:02 PM   #5
wessongroup
 
wessongroup's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-17-10
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 2,523

wessongroup is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Great recap summary Woooosh...

Amazing how simple it is ... with all the "trash" removed from the discussion
__________________
Suicide hot line... please hold
Old 10-29-12, 08:56 PM   #6
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

"Just the facts ma'am, nothing but the facts". Wasn't that Sgt. Joe Friday? I just wanted to get the main documents up and posted. The civility won't last long. We'll get into some of the back stories- and she is actually still living there, so there is no ending yet.
You got something musical for that?
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 10-29-12 at 09:20 PM.
Old 10-30-12, 08:24 AM   #7
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Have any of the recent storms changed the look of her "front yard"???
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 10-30-12, 11:21 AM   #8
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Nope. This summer the beach is the widest I have ever seen, although the water does come right up to her foundation. A team of CFE engineers was here last month from Mexico City. They told us the city of Rosarito wants to move the federal zone line back towards the ocean to make the area of the concession private property again. They knocked on our door and asked for our concession map (theyhad seen the video) and then verified the Federal Zone Line was officially out into the street (they even marked a spot). Apparently Rosarito is willing to build the Malecon project but aren't interested unless it is on city property so the "kings of Rosarito" can profit in some way. They don't want the Malecon to be in the federal zone. (They waited 12 years too long for that imho).

Which brings about another interesting topic. When and if the Federal Zone line is moved west, creating private land- it is the concessionaire (because they have the Federal Land Title) who has first dibbs to claim it as private property when it converts. The SEMARNAT decision clearly said Tila ORtiz lacked enough proof to show any ownership- so she isn't even in line for it according to federal law. The recent SEMARNAT decision gave total ownership and title to Alonzo and rejected her claims.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 10-30-12 at 11:33 AM.
Old 10-30-12, 06:15 PM   #9
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Good point - I agree that will actually work in your favor. What Profepa is not willing to do on their behalf is much more likely to happen to protect private property rights. This might just be the proverbial straw...
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 11-06-12, 10:54 AM   #10
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

One very interesting aspect of this case is the Rosarito Malecon (tourist boardwalk) which has been planned for 13 years. The Malecon was redesigned in 2010 by Rancho La Costa Azul engineer Daniel Chavira- the cousin of Raphael Munoz who was the leading engineer and Federal Zone legal expert for Baja California, now deceased. I'm not sure if RLCA hired Daniel to do this redesign (could be the Federal or Baja State government), but I met him while he was out front of our house doing the survey work.

A year later Raphael Munoz arranged for me to meet Daniel Chavira- and we instantly recognized each other from the survey work. I asked Daniel to provide me with the Malecon plans and to mark the area of Alonzo's Federal Zone concession on it. What I saw was disturbing. You can see that the Malecon design is incomplete and goes around the Playa Bonita condo tower and the two lots Tila claimed as her property. In front of our house is a sports area and a children's pool but the malecon design for that area just stops. Why?

My best guess is that this area was being contested and they asked Chavira to go around it. We now know the City of Rosarito is still trying to make that area private property so Torres and Grupo Aries can legally sell those condos. It also looks to me like they blocked the area for the three condo tower project from the Malecon plan.

I think they were working with Tila Ortiz to get control of that land area, but she failed to produce results. What do you folks think about the blank area in the Malecon plans and why that would be? Daniel is deceased and I'm not sure if Rapahel knows the answer- perhaps. Is this why Rosarito only talks about the Malecon but won't release the actual plans? Very interesting and we all know how Mexicans enjoy conspiracy theories...

click to enlarge:

Click image for larger version





Name:	malecon1.PNG


Views:	40


Size:	167.8 KB


ID:	3295

Click image for larger version





Name:	malecon3.PNG


Views:	43


Size:	203.7 KB


ID:	3299

Click image for larger version





Name:	malecon2.PNG


Views:	41


Size:	229.7 KB


ID:	3296

Name:  Concesion Ariel 1.jpg


Views: 455


Size:  109.8 KB

Name:  FitTrailMalecon2.jpg


Views: 464


Size:  127.7 KB
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 11-06-12 at 11:09 AM.
Old 11-06-12, 02:14 PM   #11
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Grupo Aries tried to sell the Playa Bonita condos in July 2011 for $5.2Million USD. The sales ad promised the choice of land title (in a bank trust) or escrituas. Rancho La Costa Azul has a National Land Title claim for this land and contacted PROFEPA through Alonzo Nava to challenge what they considered to be the fraudulent sale of real estate to American investors. The resolved case of Tila Ortiz-vs-Alonzo Nava (Sept. 2012) brought the Federal Zone line all the way east into the street, Paseo del Mar. Not only did Grupo Aries likely not own the land under the condos, the land was now 100% in the Federal Zone so the condos cannot be sold. Grupo Aries backed off the sales attempt, and instead offered the units for short term rentals- which still continues.

The "conspiracy theory" would follow the line of reasoning that Grupo Aries and the City of Rosarito are in a loose partnership to build the other two towers and move the Federal Zone line back so they can all be sold. Tila Ortiz was to provide the last land needed for the towers, but her ownership claim wasn't proven and she is totally out of the picture with the recent Director General of SEMARNAT's decision of Sept 2012.

When the CFE was surveying in summer 2012 they personally told me the City of Rosarito was trying to move the Federal Zone line back into the water. The City had provided him the 2005 Federal Zone map, but since he had seen our YouTube video from Mexico City, he knew a more recent Federal Zone map existed and asked us for ours instead.

Here is the July 2011 ad selling the Playa Bonita condos:
Click image for larger version





Name:	SCAN0277.JPG


Views:	40


Size:	2.37 MB


ID:	3300

A CFE Survey Team from Mexico City is shown marking the point in Paseo Del Mar of Alonzo Nava's concession DGZF-832/08, which was validated in the Director Generals decision letter of Sept 12, 2012.

Click image for larger version





Name:	zfm-spot.PNG


Views:	42


Size:	191.2 KB


ID:	3301
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 11-06-12 at 03:01 PM.
Old 11-08-12, 10:21 AM   #12
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

What do you know about the home built between Tila and the Playa Bonita condos? Is it occupied?
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 11-08-12, 12:33 PM   #13
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Not much. It is a four unit building perpetually advertised for rent on Craigslist. There were three building the same, but the other two were torn down in 2005 to build the tower. The "owner" is Argentinian with Arizona license plates. He's got the same ownership papers as Tila Ortiz- nada. The neighbors say he just showed up and started renting them out. That building is just another part of the puzzle. It is empty today, but being cleaned.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)
Old 11-08-12, 04:03 PM   #14
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

So how did they ever get authorization/permits to build in the first place???
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 11-08-12, 07:47 PM   #15
wessongroup
 
wessongroup's Avatar
 
Join Date: 01-17-10
Location: Mission Viejo
Posts: 2,523

wessongroup is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
So how did they ever get authorization/permits to build in the first place???
Good question ---- another might be what is the current legal definition of a "concession" and "conditions of use" which woud apply to same
__________________
Suicide hot line... please hold

Last edited by wessongroup; 11-09-12 at 11:27 AM.
Old 11-08-12, 09:19 PM   #16
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
So how did they ever get authorization/permits to build in the first place???
Great question. Don't know. There were building inspections but they didn't have a land title that I know of. If no one files for a concession the Federal Zone line isn't clearly defined- they just use the last map. The condo project used an American as their front-man and he told me he wasn't told it was Federal Zone when he bought it. The neighbor across the street should have filed for a concession, but he didn't think anyone could build there- so he didn't. We didn't think anyone could build there either until that tower started going up and then we applied. They put the condo building up so fast they forget to install the elevator. ooops.

This is when there were three buildings like the one left in between Tila Ortiz and the Playa Bonita tower:
Click image for larger version





Name:	1988_Fojardo.JPG


Views:	46


Size:	198.3 KB


ID:	3302

Name:  Concesion Ariel 1.jpg


Views: 411


Size:  109.8 KB
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)

Last edited by Woooosh; 11-08-12 at 09:31 PM.
Old 11-09-12, 10:27 AM   #17
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Quote:
Originally Posted by Woooosh
This is when there were three buildings like the one left in between Tila Ortiz and the Playa Bonita tower:
I remember those houses - it's right around the corner from my consuegro's place...
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 01-21-13, 12:41 AM   #18
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

This epic battle knows no end. And the lady has some rocks. We have not had a hearing since our concession was revalidated by Mexico City on Sept 12, 2012- so we are responsible for what happens on it- including what she does. If our concession had been changed or modified, we would have received notice for the new payment amount (about $100USD per month). So without a hearing or notification, we just document what is happening and hope to shame them into doing the right thing. It didn't work in Spanish- so now we will do an English educational video series on living and investing in Rosarito Beach.

If YouTube box doesn't show below- click to view: Baja 2013 Home of the Year: Federal Zone Shenanigans. - YouTube



__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)
Old 01-21-13, 09:04 AM   #19
BajaGringo
 
BajaGringo's Avatar
 
Status: Queso Grande
Join Date: 02-09-09
Location: San Quintin
Posts: 7,148

BajaGringo is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

So who paid for all that work???
__________________

TalkBaja.com - Where everybody knows your name and nobody stays on topic
...
Old 01-21-13, 11:17 AM   #20
Woooosh
 
Woooosh's Avatar
 
Status: Moderator
Join Date: 02-19-10
Location: Rosarito Centro
Posts: 1,262

Woooosh is on a distinguished road



Default Re: The Epic Rosarito Beach Federal Zone case of Tila Ortiz -vs- Alonzo Nava

Quote:
Originally Posted by BajaGringo
So who paid for all that work???
Last time I heard she spent $10K. I've always thought there was group behind her and their goal was to get the land to build the other two towers in the project. Torres supported the tower project owned by Grupo Aries. They tried to sell the condos in 2011 knowing there was no land title and that it was sitting in the Federal Zone. They threatened me for challenging them on it but PROFEPA backed me up.

Tila plays poor-little-60 year old me down here, but she has a lakeside house in CA. Now that everyone knows she was not a "Mexicana" living here for 20 years as she swore to under oath her glow is wearing off. I just hope we are not the ones who have to pay for having that modular house torn off the broken slab foundation. We're into this for about $20K already.
__________________
"Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever has." Margaret Mead to JFK (maybe)





Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Halloween in Rosarito Beach... Woooosh General Discussion 2 11-02-12 04:45 PM
Moving to Rosarito Beach in Feb. TravelPro787 Introduce Yourself to the Forum 23 04-06-11 07:50 PM
Burglaries In Rosarito Beach Marty Cortez Baja News Wire 3 07-21-10 10:59 PM
4th of July Beach BBQ - Rosarito Beach BajaGringo Calendar of Events 0 06-17-10 08:23 AM
Las Gaviotas at Rosarito Beach BajaPro Baja Real Estate 0 05-09-09 01:11 AM